Ruined St. Louis 3-2-1 Ribs - 1st try

[SmokeZilla]

It would be interesting to unpack the ratio theory. Since the first phase of the cook is typically the smoke inhalation step (e.g., initial absorption of smoke at a very low temperature and optional), then the next phase is at a higher temp to develop bark, is it inferred that the next major phase (wrap) would be 66% of the time used to set the bark? Also, if you are in phase 2 “wrap” for 110 minutes would that mean the next phase (set the sauce) would be 50% of the wrap stage or 33% of the bark set phase. Looks like I need to fire up the smokers and do some experimenting.

 

[Gonefishin]

How would you determine when to call stage 1 complete?

 

[SmokeOCD]

How would you determine when to call stage 1 complete?

Smoke detector....

I'm interested to read the scientific results, but c'mon there's a bit of art to pulling off a good meal. Variables are the meat, the weather and the grill. Any of those three can be wonky and there's still a good meal to be had.

 

[SmokeZilla]

How would you determine when to call stage 1 complete?

Padlin00,

Therein lies the challenge. I usually spritz with a combo of apple juice, apple cider vinegar, and water (50/25/25) at least 4 times during the bark forming stages which would be different form the results others may see. I also do a pre-smoke at ~180F for 45 minutes that doesn‘t have a great influence on shortening the overall cooking time as I am slowly bringing the rib’s IT from ~42F to ~100F without the drying process beginning (we call it sweating the meat). I think the concept of using 3-2-1 ratios may be a rabbit hole but it won’t be the first one I’ve encountered. I have some of my old cook data and it doesn’t track consistently from cook to cook due to all the variables pointed out by many on this site. Ultimately, I think we need to do the same thing I instructed military pilots to do during their training. Trust your visuals when all else fails.

 

[Motodad1776]

I never thought of it as a Ratio. It does make sense if you use it that way. 225 to 250 is my usual cook temp. 225 if only a couple of ribs, 250 if the 700 is full (6 St. Louis cut ribs)

Your actual cook "times" are very close to mine. My bark is usually set to my liking around 2hrs and the wrap is around 45 min (depending on foil or paper) before setting the glaze for about 15min. if having for dinner that night.

Pretty spot on for how I do it as well, except for being pretty consistent with 250F.

 

[DenStinett]

DenStenett…in the very top/first picture, is that the “stock” RecTeq 2nd shelf? It’s vague but I think I’m seeing legs on the right side of the upper shelf. I’ve been looking at options for a second shelf but have been procrastinating on making a decision. I’ve seen one or two comments about it moving around when moving meats. But for the price, it seems as if would work well enough. However, They don’t appear to be in stock at RT.

I’ve been looking at the PCS Rackworks solutions. I really like this but not 100% sure I want to essentially pay a few hundred bucks for a second shelf. It’s probably what I’ll end up doing.

I looked at the accessory rack from Grilla Grills too. Again, it’s not a fixed/stationary assembly. Their new “Mammoth” vertical smoker would solve my multiple shelf issue. Oddly, paying $1,100 for that bothers me less than a few hundred for the PCS solution. I should have a few drinks and make a decision.

What I really want to know is if you like the crack you have?

Sorry I'm so late to answer
But as SmokeZilla said, yes, that is an OEM RT Large Shelf
I use it on a lot of our Cooks, and maybe it's just me, but I do believe it does allow for a bit more Smoke on the Meat

Not sure if they still offer it though .... it's not shown on their Site any longer (bummer) .... two Small Shelves "may" work too

 

[TheRicker]

Sorry I'm so late to answer
But as SmokeZilla said, yes, that is an OEM RT Large Shelf
I use it on a lot of our Cooks, and maybe it's just me, but I do believe it does allow for a bit more Smoke on the Meat

Not sure if they still offer it though .... it's not shown on their Site any longer (bummer) .... two Small Shelves "may" work too

It shows as “not available” last time I checked. I’m giving more consideration to the PCS Rackworks (package 4a) or the Grilla Grills Jerky Rack (for the Silverbac).

 

[frawil]

New user. Horrible cook.

I bought a Patio Legend upon advise from a friend because I am absent minded and burn or undercook everything on our gas grill. So far, it's been incredible. Wife and daughters are not big flesh eaters. They only eat chicken, fish and turkey. No "cute" animals - pork, beef, deer, elk, etc. But I've not failed a single meal yet. Chicken, thighs, breasts, salmon, chicken legs.

Followed all the recipes, temps, cook times, prep and settings from the Recteq guys & recipes. Even reverse seared a ribeye for the first time ever on the sear plates and aced it!!!

But my last assignment is 3-2-1 ribs & they overcooked or something. I did the basics of removing the membrane from the Smithfield St. Louis Ribs pre-cut ribs.
Then I did the mustard prep, followed Jody's direction on seasoning, cooked them meat side up exposed for 3 hours (Patio Legend), wrapped meat side down with butter, brown sugar & apple juice for 2 hours. Removed, back on the grates meat side up for 1 hr, saucing at 30 minutes.

Color and shrinkage all looked perfect. Taste of all the seasoning and bark amazing. But the ribs were two distinctly separate tissues...fat/gristle or overcooked meat on the bone.

I went back, watched his quick YouTube video and everything was cooked at 250 degrees. Most all the other 3-2-1 videos I looked into afterwards were cooking at 225. Some even did 180 for the first 3 hrs before going up to 225 for the last 3.

I've NEVER cooked ribs before. I've never slowed cooked much of anything honestly. Hell...I'm 51. I'm basic. The Patio Legend, the app, the probes, the controls, the temp recommendations have really idiot proofed meat for me.


But I've talked to my buddy about it and a few others and none of them think I did anything wrong. But the ribs sucked. Dry, overcooked meat and distinctly separate, gristly fat.

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It seems like to me the packers are not trimming the St Louis ribs correctly. That gristle and fat is supposed to be trimmed off on St Louis. They are trying to sell the junk. Should be just ribs from top to bottom.

 

[Pizza_Smoker]

Just to add into a already answered OP..... No 321... For me either--- 100% way to overcook them..

Ive found my "easy" ribs... I make a "rib bowl" for each rack.. This will keep the bottoms and thinner parts from getting burned... Also-- juices will drop into the bowl and help to keep the ribs moist.. Cook here for about 3 hrs @ 245.. Ill check with my instant read thermometer and once we are getting "close-ish" to finish temp.. Ill start hitting them a combo of bbq sause and Dr Peper with a bit of butter mixed in.. Slather slather-- once you hit your pull temp.. Bring them out-- let them sit a bit then cut and CHOMP..

Make sure your checking your internal temps.. each rack is different how they handle heat.. Instant read thermometer is your friend.. (or if your running a wifi module-- then put the temp probes into the meat and keep a eye on the app..

 

[AlphaPapa]

Bizutch, I mean this question in all kindness. Please take it that way.

How many times have you eaten (not cooked, but eaten) slow cooked ribs?

If the answer is many times, then; Were they good? What did you like about them? Flavor, tenderness, the chew, and on and on.

In my experience, dry meat with fat and gristle means the collagen didn't break. To me, this means the cook was too hot or the ribs pulled too soon.

With a total disregard to the time and temp of your cook, did you just take a tooth pick or a bamboo skewer and pierce between the bones for pass through? If you grabbed on end of the rack and picked up the entire rack bone side down, did the rack bend and start to tear?

I cook saint louis trim ribs using the same prep steps as you. Pull then membrane, lightly cover with mustard, and apply rub.

I set my pellet grill at 275 and when at temperature, I drop my ribs bone side down. I then walk away for 4 hours. I do not open the lid (like pork butts). I do not spritz the ribs, I do not foil the ribs.

After about 4 hours I open the lid and look at color and pull back. The ribs may still look dry and leathery. They will look ugly until you actually get the collagen break to occur. If they are already looking good (shiny from the fat and not leathery) then you can quickly grab one end of a rack with tongs and gently lift the entire rack. If it lifts like a board, it needs more time. If it bends and starts to tear, the flex test is say's continue testing. Using the same tongs, lift one end slightly and twist gently. A done rib will twist and if you continue will tear the section away from the rack.
The real test is done with a tooth pick or a bamboo skewer. Simply pass the toothpick through the rack of ribs at any point between the bones. It should go though smoothly and without resistance. If you have a tub of the whipped easy spread type imitation butter, stick it with a toothpick. This is what done feels like.

An interesting experiment is to stick your ribs with the toothpick at about 3:45 hours, then at 4:00 hours, then at 4:15 hours (you get the drift). The push through will be not smooth, not smooth, and then all of a sudden, will be smooth.

When the pick push is smooth, pull the ribs (confirm with the lift, the twist, and the pull back, but the push through will never lie).

If you take the time to do the experiment, you will clearly tell when you hit the finish spot. Do it once and you will know forever. You will own your ribs from that time on.

If you ever have a sacrifice rack and about 4 hours to spare, try the above. On at 275, close the lid, and walk away for about 3 hours 45 minutes. Come back with a toothpick, and probe every 15 minutes until you hit the sweet point on your push through.

Pull your ribs and cover them with a tent of foil (don't seal it).

My historical cook times at 275:
Baby Backs 3 - 3.5 hours
St. Louis trim Spares 4 - 4.5 hours
Full Spares (with breast plate and niblets) 6 - 7 hours.

v/r r

@rhouser I decided to take your advice. My local Ingles market had St. Louis ribs on sale for under $3 per lb. So, I picked up a rack to treat as a “throw away” for Sunday night where we had already planned to have a different meal. So, no pressure if they turned out bad.

I followed your process with just a few exceptions. First, I am really sensitive to dry meat. That is why I have always wrapped. So, I added a tin of water to the smoker. I also put a tin of lard in the smoker and used it to baste the ribs towards the end of the cook.

One other change is that I smoked on LOW (180) for the first hour. At 275, I didn’t think I would get much smoke.

In the end, I would call the cook a success. They were probably the best ribs I have ever made (but that is not saying much). And, this process was much easier than any I have used in the past. So, this is now my base process. I will continue to tweak from this.

Thanks for your post!

Here are detailed notes on the cook:

St. Louis Spare Ribs
3.06 lbs @ $2.98 /lb
Bought from Ingles on 3-9 (not frozen at time of purchase)
Cooked on afternoon of 3-10
Using Recteq Ultimate Blend pellets

Set smoker to LO
Removed membrane and trimmed fat
Rubbed ribs lightly with mustard
Sprinkled with seasoning (copycat Honey Hog; made my own so I could control the amount of salt)

1330 - Put ribs on smoker; placed tin of water and tin of lard on smoker
1430 - Raised temp to 275 (temp reached at 1441)
1715 - Basted with smoked lard; rotated 180 degrees; placed tin of BBQ sauce (Sweet Baby Ray’s) on smoker
1730 - not probe tender; basted with BBQ sauce
1745 - not probe tender
1755 - probe tender; removed and covered loosely with foil


Results

• Tasted 2 bones; vacuum sealed the rest and placed in the fridge
• Nice and tender
• Moist, but not fall-off-the-bone; nice pull
• Good flavor

 

[Jim6820]

(…made my own so I could control the amount of salt)

As a quick aside, this is exactly why I have long made my own rubs. I like a moderately heavy coating of rub on my protein and find many commercial rubs to be too heavy in salt. Lightening up the salt in my home-made rubs allows me to get the amount of rub on the protein that I want without over-salting. And, if more salt is needed, it can always be added quite easily.

 

[Greg Jones]

As a quick aside, this is exactly why I have long made my own rubs. I like a moderately heavy coating of rub on my protein and find many commercial rubs to be too heavy in salt. Lightening up the salt in my home-made rubs allows me to get the amount of rub on the protein that I want without over-salting. And, if more salt is needed, it can always be added quite easily.

I like a salt-forward rub myself, but my wife-nope! I’m light on the rub myself, then add salt if needed so that everyone is happy.

 

[SmokeOCD]

Sprinkled with seasoning (copycat Honey Hog; made my own so I could control the amount of salt)

Out of everything you wrote - this jumped out. Thanks! I bought the honey from Amazon and had everything else.
I sprinkled Goya Adobo lightly as the first layer (salt layer) - then the homemade Honey Hog. It's a great rub.

 

[SmokeOCD]

I like a salt-forward rub myself, but my wife-nope! I’m light on the rub myself, then add salt if needed so that everyone is happy.

You should be sainted.... the things you do for her.

 

[C. Keeper]

How would you determine when to call stage 1 complete?

You call a professional!