Ruined St. Louis 3-2-1 Ribs - 1st try

[Bizutch]

New user. Horrible cook.

I bought a Patio Legend upon advise from a friend because I am absent minded and burn or undercook everything on our gas grill. So far, it's been incredible. Wife and daughters are not big flesh eaters. They only eat chicken, fish and turkey. No "cute" animals - pork, beef, deer, elk, etc. But I've not failed a single meal yet. Chicken, thighs, breasts, salmon, chicken legs.

Followed all the recipes, temps, cook times, prep and settings from the Recteq guys & recipes. Even reverse seared a ribeye for the first time ever on the sear plates and aced it!!!

But my last assignment is 3-2-1 ribs & they overcooked or something. I did the basics of removing the membrane from the Smithfield St. Louis Ribs pre-cut ribs.
Then I did the mustard prep, followed Jody's direction on seasoning, cooked them meat side up exposed for 3 hours (Patio Legend), wrapped meat side down with butter, brown sugar & apple juice for 2 hours. Removed, back on the grates meat side up for 1 hr, saucing at 30 minutes.

Color and shrinkage all looked perfect. Taste of all the seasoning and bark amazing. But the ribs were two distinctly separate tissues...fat/gristle or overcooked meat on the bone.

I went back, watched his quick YouTube video and everything was cooked at 250 degrees. Most all the other 3-2-1 videos I looked into afterwards were cooking at 225. Some even did 180 for the first 3 hrs before going up to 225 for the last 3.

I've NEVER cooked ribs before. I've never slowed cooked much of anything honestly. Hell...I'm 51. I'm basic. The Patio Legend, the app, the probes, the controls, the temp recommendations have really idiot proofed meat for me.


But I've talked to my buddy about it and a few others and none of them think I did anything wrong. But the ribs sucked. Dry, overcooked meat and distinctly separate, gristly fat.

 

[Jim6820]

Never overlook the possibility that you got a bad rack of ribs; it happens.

Did you monitor the internal temperature of the protein? If so, at what temp did you pull the ribs? Or, did you just go by time?

I’m not a fan of timed cooks; too many possible variables. I monitor internal temperature and probe for tenderness to determine when a cook is completed. A reliable, quality probe-type thermometer (preferably instant-read) is a must for me.

Good luck on the next rib cook.

 

[Bizutch]

All of what you said has to be the explanation honestly. I only watched a half dozen videos and while they all said "probe slides right in" as evidence of being done, none ever said "you might not go the full 6 hours. When I do them again, I'll be more attentive to the probe method. None of the videos really cited an internal temp as being done. But you are right in that all mentioned the probe sliding in being the indication of doneness. Didn't think much of it because they ALL went the full 6 hrs...and if they didn't none mentioned cutting cook time short for it.


Just based on the consistency of the meat, I lean toward it being a "bad" rack.

Is there any guidance on how to identify a good rack of ribs? I don't get to indulge much in ribs or pork of any kind. My wife is a REGISTERED DIETITIAN. Got that eye on my measurements, my readings...even has me do A1C.

But dang it...I really want to get this right and enjoy my own self prepped and served ribs right off the grill.

 

[Jim6820]

If you haven’t seen this rib primer…

https://onehotmamas.com/how-can-you...st ribs hit their sweet,all-end-all indicator.

….you might want to take a look. There are some good tips there that should answer some of your questions.

I don’t have any connection with the website; just found it a while back and thought it had some good information.

 

[Motodad1776]

No more 3-2-1 ribs, I do at 250F and the entire process takes a bit over 3 hours.......come out perfect. No question that all meat isn't created equal, and sometimes we do get a bad rack or cut of something, however.......3-2-1 is simply too long for ribs. Don't get discouraged as that was your trial run, get back on that horse and give it another ride soon.

 

[rhouser]

Bizutch, I mean this question in all kindness. Please take it that way.

How many times have you eaten (not cooked, but eaten) slow cooked ribs?

If the answer is many times, then; Were they good? What did you like about them? Flavor, tenderness, the chew, and on and on.

In my experience, dry meat with fat and gristle means the collagen didn't break. To me, this means the cook was too hot or the ribs pulled too soon.

With a total disregard to the time and temp of your cook, did you just take a tooth pick or a bamboo skewer and pierce between the bones for pass through? If you grabbed on end of the rack and picked up the entire rack bone side down, did the rack bend and start to tear?

I cook saint louis trim ribs using the same prep steps as you. Pull then membrane, lightly cover with mustard, and apply rub.

I set my pellet grill at 275 and when at temperature, I drop my ribs bone side down. I then walk away for 4 hours. I do not open the lid (like pork butts). I do not spritz the ribs, I do not foil the ribs.

After about 4 hours I open the lid and look at color and pull back. The ribs may still look dry and leathery. They will look ugly until you actually get the collagen break to occur. If they are already looking good (shiny from the fat and not leathery) then you can quickly grab one end of a rack with tongs and gently lift the entire rack. If it lifts like a board, it needs more time. If it bends and starts to tear, the flex test is say's continue testing. Using the same tongs, lift one end slightly and twist gently. A done rib will twist and if you continue will tear the section away from the rack.
The real test is done with a tooth pick or a bamboo skewer. Simply pass the toothpick through the rack of ribs at any point between the bones. It should go though smoothly and without resistance. If you have a tub of the whipped easy spread type imitation butter, stick it with a toothpick. This is what done feels like.

An interesting experiment is to stick your ribs with the toothpick at about 3:45 hours, then at 4:00 hours, then at 4:15 hours (you get the drift). The push through will be not smooth, not smooth, and then all of a sudden, will be smooth.

When the pick push is smooth, pull the ribs (confirm with the lift, the twist, and the pull back, but the push through will never lie).

If you take the time to do the experiment, you will clearly tell when you hit the finish spot. Do it once and you will know forever. You will own your ribs from that time on.

If you ever have a sacrifice rack and about 4 hours to spare, try the above. On at 275, close the lid, and walk away for about 3 hours 45 minutes. Come back with a toothpick, and probe every 15 minutes until you hit the sweet point on your push through.

Pull your ribs and cover them with a tent of foil (don't seal it).

My historical cook times at 275:
Baby Backs 3 - 3.5 hours
St. Louis trim Spares 4 - 4.5 hours
Full Spares (with breast plate and niblets) 6 - 7 hours.

v/r r

 

[Mozekian]

As others have said

Never cook bbq to time. Cook to temp
3-2-1 is a sure fire way for overcooked ribs.

Every animal is different. Every piece of meat is a muscle that will act differently to heat. In BBQ you need to remember this and the meat will tell you when it’s done, not the timer. It’s why some 10 pound briskets can cook in 10 hours and some 15.

In my opinion 3-2-1 is highly flawed because of the 2 hour wrap. You’re boiling the ribs for 2 hours. Wrap, great. But you have to check and look at them around the 45-60 minute mark, as soon as the meat is probe tender and temping 200 degrees, they are done. Tack them up for another 15 minutes (not an hour) and you’re set.

If I were King, my first order of business would be to abolish the 3-2-1. Whenever someone tells me their ribs are awesome and they use 3-2-1, I laugh inside.

Just remember, cook to temp, not time. All proteins are not the same, they need to be treated with that in mind. BBQ takes practice. I’m willing to bet your next rack will be much better

 

[Lager1829]

If I were King, my first order of business would be to abolish the 3-2-1.

Haha. Agree. That and 0 to 400 wings. Who wants to taste the dirty start up smoke?

 

[Snorebaby]

I have done 3-2-1 ribs with success and failure. As said before, every cut of meat will act different than the prior cut of meat. I no longer do 3-2-1. I usually cook at either 225 or 250 and wrap (either foil or butcher paper, depending) and go until probe tender.

If I wrap in foil, we normally eat them the next day. I will pull them just before probe tender (usually 45min to 1 hour after initial wrap). We cut them into individual bones and sauce them once cooled and rewrap for the reheat the next day.

If I wrap in paper it is for dinner that night and take them to probe tender, sauce them and let it tack up for about 15min open on the rack.

But the main objective to me is the color/setting of the bark. That is when I wrap and it's not time dependent.

 

[SmokeZilla]

Rule #1 - Never give up. Each cook (successful or otherwise) is an opportunity for improvement and learning.
Rule #2 - Never believe everything you read/see on the internet. The 3-2-1 method has been responsible for more bad rib outcomes than anything I have seen recently. I think the creator/proponent of that method must be the same people that estimate how many miles per gallon you get on your car. Would you trust their estimates solely by looking at your odometer or do you look at the gas gauge periodically? If you search 3-2-1 on this site you will see your experiences are not unique.

Keep cooking and consider yourself closer to graduating from the “School of Hard Knocks”. Every one of us has had that “bad” cook that turned into a good lesson. Anyone that hasn’t has very different taste buds that me.

 

[Beach Bum]

Good advice. I had one last weekend on a last minute request for tri tip. I settled for lesser quality meat and got the outcome I feared. Polite guests would not say it, but I knew it. My wife was honest after the dinner was over. I had to admit she was correct, as usual.

 

[Jim6820]

I had to admit she was correct, as usual.

IME, that’s harder to choke down than bad tri-tip!

 

[Gonefishin]

I tried Smithfield ribs once, I’d suggest you try another brand next time. It’s also been a long time since I actually cooked to the 3-2-1 time.

 

[MikeK]

As others have said

Never cook bbq to time. Cook to temp
3-2-1 is a sure fire way for overcooked ribs.

Every animal is different. Every piece of meat is a muscle that will act differently to heat. In BBQ you need to remember this and the meat will tell you when it’s done, not the timer. It’s why some 10 pound briskets can cook in 10 hours and some 15.

In my opinion 3-2-1 is highly flawed because of the 2 hour wrap. You’re boiling the ribs for 2 hours. Wrap, great. But you have to check and look at them around the 45-60 minute mark, as soon as the meat is probe tender and temping 200 degrees, they are done. Tack them up for another 15 minutes (not an hour) and you’re set.

If I were King, my first order of business would be to abolish the 3-2-1. Whenever someone tells me their ribs are awesome and they use 3-2-1, I laugh inside.

Just remember, cook to temp, not time. All proteins are not the same, they need to be treated with that in mind. BBQ takes practice. I’m willing to bet your next rack will be much better

It works if you smoke them at 180º and raise to 200º the last hr.

 

[DenStinett]

With Ribs and Butts, Smoked Lard is your friend

 

[TheRicker]

I’ve read all the responses in this thread and they’re all on point. I’m in full agreement…especially with trying different approaches until you hit the marks you’re trying to achieve.

But what I want to share with everyone is something I heard just last night on “Andrew Zimmern’s Wild Game Kitchen” (streamed on the “Tastemade” channel on my Roku.). He said the “3-2-1 method” isn’t a time-based process but a RATIO process. And I got to thinking he maybe right. I always heard 3-2-1 about pertains to time…in hours. But I found that my ribs were always falling off the bone…meaning overcooked. What started doing, about a year ago, was more like a 2-1-.5 time (hours) process. My ribs turned out much better.

That said, I’ve since used some of the other tips the bbq’ers on this forum have suggested and am enjoying even better results. I find leaving or getting a probe to stay in between the ribs, without hitting bone, troublesome. So I now use my Thermopen to check the temp between bones as well as to “feel” the tenderness. Some folks use skewers…same principle.

My point with my rambling is simply to change the mindset that 3-2-1 is a time process based on a full hour unit of time. If thought of more as a ratio of 3 units of smoke, 2 units of wrapped cooking, and 1 unit of unwrapped glazing you may experience better results. Why the ratio makes sense to me is that spare ribs, baby back ribs, lamb ribs, or other types of ribs have different density, thickness, weight, etc. It makes sense that you can’t cook each one with 3 hours of smoke, 2 hours of wrapped cooking, and another hour of unwrapped glazing/finishing. To adapt to that reality, think of 3-2-1 as a ratio of equal units of time (less than an hour) and be mindful of all the tips the experienced bbq’ers in this forum share with us. It’ll take some experimenting to find out what works right for you as gain more experience/knowledge.

Disclaimer: If you don’t wrap your ribs, please don’t send negative replies. I get it. I’m just offering a tidbit on something I’ve learned that may be helpful to less experienced bbq’ers.

 

[TheRicker]

With Ribs and Butts, Smoked Lard is your friend

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DenStenett…in the very top/first picture, is that the “stock” RecTeq 2nd shelf? It’s vague but I think I’m seeing legs on the right side of the upper shelf. I’ve been looking at options for a second shelf but have been procrastinating on making a decision. I’ve seen one or two comments about it moving around when moving meats. But for the price, it seems as if would work well enough. However, They don’t appear to be in stock at RT.

I’ve been looking at the PCS Rackworks solutions. I really like this but not 100% sure I want to essentially pay a few hundred bucks for a second shelf. It’s probably what I’ll end up doing.

I looked at the accessory rack from Grilla Grills too. Again, it’s not a fixed/stationary assembly. Their new “Mammoth” vertical smoker would solve my multiple shelf issue. Oddly, paying $1,100 for that bothers me less than a few hundred for the PCS solution. I should have a few drinks and make a decision.

What I really want to know is if you like the crack you have?

 

[SmokeZilla]

DenStenett…in the very top/first picture, is that the “stock” RecTeq 2nd shelf? It’s vague but I think I’m seeing legs on the right side of the upper shelf. I’ve been looking at options for a second shelf but have been procrastinating on making a decision. I’ve seen one or two comments about it moving around when moving meats. But for the price, it seems as if would work well enough. However, They don’t appear to be in stock at RT.

I’ve been looking at the PCS Rackworks solutions. I really like this but not 100% sure I want to essentially pay a few hundred bucks for a second shelf. It’s probably what I’ll end up doing.

I looked at the accessory rack from Grilla Grills too. Again, it’s not a fixed/stationary assembly. Their new “Mammoth” vertical smoker would solve my multiple shelf issue. Oddly, paying $1,100 for that bothers me less than a few hundred for the PCS solution. I should have a few drinks and make a decision.

What I really want to know is if you like the crack you have?

The Ricker,
I know you didn’t ask me but that is a large RT shelf. I have that shelf and 2 small shelves. I can say they open a new dimension to chamber configuration. It has been said that raising a butt or brisket above the grate area enhances smoke absorption but I can’t confirm. They can also be used with stanchions if I want non-standard heights. For convenience and utility I like it/them.

 

[DesertRat]

New user. Horrible cook.

I bought a Patio Legend upon advise from a friend because I am absent minded and burn or undercook everything on our gas grill. So far, it's been incredible. Wife and daughters are not big flesh eaters. They only eat chicken, fish and turkey. No "cute" animals - pork, beef, deer, elk, etc. But I've not failed a single meal yet. Chicken, thighs, breasts, salmon, chicken legs.

Followed all the recipes, temps, cook times, prep and settings from the Recteq guys & recipes. Even reverse seared a ribeye for the first time ever on the sear plates and aced it!!!

But my last assignment is 3-2-1 ribs & they overcooked or something. I did the basics of removing the membrane from the Smithfield St. Louis Ribs pre-cut ribs.
Then I did the mustard prep, followed Jody's direction on seasoning, cooked them meat side up exposed for 3 hours (Patio Legend), wrapped meat side down with butter, brown sugar & apple juice for 2 hours. Removed, back on the grates meat side up for 1 hr, saucing at 30 minutes.

Color and shrinkage all looked perfect. Taste of all the seasoning and bark amazing. But the ribs were two distinctly separate tissues...fat/gristle or overcooked meat on the bone.

I went back, watched his quick YouTube video and everything was cooked at 250 degrees. Most all the other 3-2-1 videos I looked into afterwards were cooking at 225. Some even did 180 for the first 3 hrs before going up to 225 for the last 3.

I've NEVER cooked ribs before. I've never slowed cooked much of anything honestly. Hell...I'm 51. I'm basic. The Patio Legend, the app, the probes, the controls, the temp recommendations have really idiot proofed meat for me.


But I've talked to my buddy about it and a few others and none of them think I did anything wrong. But the ribs sucked. Dry, overcooked meat and distinctly separate, gristly fat.

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Don't worry. For what it's worth, 3-2-1 is a catchy marketing term and has no place in a smoker's arsenal IMHO. I like to experiment with times and wrapping or not wrapping. But I stick with 225f. (And babybacks don't cook the same as a full wrack.)

 

[Snorebaby]

I’ve read all the responses in this thread and they’re all on point. I’m in full agreement…especially with trying different approaches until you hit the marks you’re trying to achieve.

But what I want to share with everyone is something I heard just last night on “Andrew Zimmern’s Wild Game Kitchen” (streamed on the “Tastemade” channel on my Roku.). He said the “3-2-1 method” isn’t a time-based process but a RATIO process. And I got to thinking he maybe right. I always heard 3-2-1 about pertains to time…in hours. But I found that my ribs were always falling off the bone…meaning overcooked. What started doing, about a year ago, was more like a 2-1-.5 time (hours) process. My ribs turned out much better.

That said, I’ve since used some of the other tips the bbq’ers on this forum have suggested and am enjoying even better results. I find leaving or getting a probe to stay in between the ribs, without hitting bone, troublesome. So I now use my Thermopen to check the temp between bones as well as to “feel” the tenderness. Some folks use skewers…same principle.

My point with my rambling is simply to change the mindset that 3-2-1 is a time process based on a full hour unit of time. If thought of more as a ratio of 3 units of smoke, 2 units of wrapped cooking, and 1 unit of unwrapped glazing you may experience better results. Why the ratio makes sense to me is that spare ribs, baby back ribs, lamb ribs, or other types of ribs have different density, thickness, weight, etc. It makes sense that you can’t cook each one with 3 hours of smoke, 2 hours of wrapped cooking, and another hour of unwrapped glazing/finishing. To adapt to that reality, think of 3-2-1 as a ratio of equal units of time (less than an hour) and be mindful of all the tips the experienced bbq’ers in this forum share with us. It’ll take some experimenting to find out what works right for you as gain more experience/knowledge.

Disclaimer: If you don’t wrap your ribs, please don’t send negative replies. I get it. I’m just offering a tidbit on something I’ve learned that may be helpful to less experienced bbq’ers.

I never thought of it as a Ratio. It does make sense if you use it that way. 225 to 250 is my usual cook temp. 225 if only a couple of ribs, 250 if the 700 is full (6 St. Louis cut ribs)

Your actual cook "times" are very close to mine. My bark is usually set to my liking around 2hrs and the wrap is around 45 min (depending on foil or paper) before setting the glaze for about 15min. if having for dinner that night.