Serious brisket at serious altitude

[KSM]

I was wondering if there anyone in the Recteq family that has consistently made a whole packer brisket on a pellet grill at altitudes of say 7,000 or 8,000 ft. and would be open to share their method and how to prevent it from drying ot or tasting like pot roast (temps, approx duration of cook, internal temp to pull and wrap (or no wrap) to keep it moist in that very dry environment where water boils at 197 and sucks moisture out? I will be spending some time next summer at 8000 ft and have been asked to make a brisket but I hear its very different ball game than smoking at 1000ft. Can anyone point me to the fountain of knowledge?

 

[SmokeZilla]

I will admit I haven’t done briskets at that altitude but I have cooked other items. The key to success for me is a well sealed cooking chamber and water trays to keep the moisture in. I also inject more fluids into the protein and keep the boiling point as low as possible (225-240F). Another trick you can use is to put an aluminum pan of water pan directly on a lit smoke box with a few wood chips in it. This keeps the pan from coming to a complete boil but adds a lot of moisture to the chamber. You will need to make sure to add hot/boiling water to the pan during the cook and minimize opening the chamber. Keeping grills at a near constant temp and keeping combustion engines running at that altitude has always been challenging. Good luck and let us know what works best for you.

 

[KSM]

I will admit I haven’t done briskets at that altitude but I have cooked other items. The key to success for me is a well sealed cooking chamber and water trays to keep the moisture in. I also inject more fluids into the protein and keep the boiling point as low as possible (225-240F). Another trick you can use is to put an aluminum pan of water pan directly on a lit smoke box with a few wood chips in it. This keeps the pan from coming to a complete boil but adds a lot of moisture to the chamber. You will need to make sure to add hot/boiling water to the pan during the cook and minimize opening the chamber. Keeping grills at a near constant temp and keeping combustion engines running at that altitude has always been challenging. Good luck and let us know what works best for you.

Thank SmokeZilla, I think the key as you mentioned is the water tray and injecting the protein. I have never had to do it with a Brisket before but I think I need to experiment with it. Would you broth or tallow? I had never thought/heard about the wood chip trick in the water pan but will 100% give it a shot.

 

[Waterboy]

Here is a video on this very subject. I’ve read some other articles that competition folks have written but they worry to much about stuff I don’t concern myself with. I think you are on the right track.

 

[SmokeZilla]

Thank SmokeZilla, I think the key as you mentioned is the water tray and injecting the protein. I have never had to do it with a Brisket before but I think I need to experiment with it. Would you broth or tallow? I had never thought/heard about the wood chip trick in the water pan but will 100% give it a shot.

KSM,

I typically inject with a combination of liquified beef bullion (or “Better Than Beef”) mixed with onion powder, pepper, garlic powder, melted unsalted butter and a trace of Wagyu tallow. Because some bullion can contain a lot of salt, I don’t add any to the injection. For me, the key to a good injection is start as far into the protein as possible and keep injecting until you get the needle almost back out. A Pro Tip is to inject against the grain and hope the capillary effect will spread the ingredients like branches on a tree. I also caution you not to over inject as it will increase your cooking time (at low temperatures). At higher temps, you run the risk of boiling the meat when it hits around 190F. You may also need to over inject or foil the flat. At those altitudes, it will probably cook faster than the point and the foil trick will keep the temps within about 10 degrees of each other until you can wrap.
Good luck.

 

[KSM]

The video was very helpful - I think besides all the tips from the Recteq community and the video, I need to remind myself that it will be a new learning experience and may need to do one trial run first and adjust for the real cook. Thanks for the link.

 

[KSM]

KSM,

I typically inject with a combination of liquified beef bullion (or “Better Than Beef”) mixed with onion powder, pepper, garlic powder, melted unsalted butter and a trace of Wagyu tallow. Because some bullion can contain a lot of salt, I don’t add any to the injection. For me, the key to a good injection is start as far into the protein as possible and keep injecting until you get the needle almost back out. A Pro Tip is to inject against the grain and hope the capillary effect will spread the ingredients like branches on a tree. I also caution you not to over inject as it will increase your cooking time (at low temperatures). At higher temps, you run the risk of boiling the meat when it hits around 190F. You may also need to over inject or foil the flat. At those altitudes, it will probably cook faster than the point and the foil trick will keep the temps within about 10 degrees of each other until you can wrap.
Good luck.

SmokeZilla, Thats a bunch of great tips - I have only injected a couple of times but always with the grain. I’m looking forward to trying your method. With boiling point of around 196 at those altitudes, I will have to keep a close eye on the internal temps. Maybe play a bit with the mix of tallow to broth ratio to give myself a bit of a margin?? Thanks again.

 

[MikeK]

Here is a video on this very subject. I’ve read some other articles that competition folks have written but they worry to much about stuff I don’t concern myself with. I think you are on the right track.

Not sure the video really proves anything. If they both lost 39% of the weight, that tells me the moisture loss was the same between them dies it not?

 

[Waterboy]

Not sure the video really proves anything. If they both lost 39% of the weight, that tells me the moisture loss was the same between them dies it not?

I think the video shows all kinds of things you have to consider.

If you look at the chart from the video the finish temps were different and he says in the video he couldn’t get the higher elevation brisket any higher than that because of the lower boiling point.

The foil boat was almost dry at the higher elevation which shows the higher elevation is more dependent on adding moisture to your cook.

There was a significant difference in the time to the stall and a somewhat lesser difference to the finished product.

I think the similar percentage of loss was do to the amount of liquid added to both cooks so the briskets had access to enough water to not dry out. My guess is if he had used less water or just a water pan you’d have seen a difference in the moisture of the two cooks.

 

[Maule Guy]

I will admit I haven’t done briskets at that altitude but I have cooked other items. The key to success for me is a well sealed cooking chamber and water trays to keep the moisture in. I also inject more fluids into the protein and keep the boiling point as low as possible (225-240F). Another trick you can use is to put an aluminum pan of water pan directly on a lit smoke box with a few wood chips in it. This keeps the pan from coming to a complete boil but adds a lot of moisture to the chamber. You will need to make sure to add hot/boiling water to the pan during the cook and minimize opening the chamber. Keeping grills at a near constant temp and keeping combustion engines running at that altitude has always been challenging. Good luck and let us know what works best for you.

What SmokeZilla said.

You should have room for a pan of water in the RT700.
Wrapping is probably a must at 8k ft, tight pink butcher paper would be my choice and maybe cooking on a second shelf to get the meat away from the radiant heat of the fire pot (water pan could sit on main grate).
Put some fat trimmings in another aluminum pan on the grate to render and use this to coat the butcher paper that will touch the meat. This helps seal the moisture in while in the paper.

My $0.02 worth.

 

[DesertRat]

Son of a gun. I can't be much help in this discussion. But I am probably the only poster here that lived at 9,000 ft for many years. I began smoking with an electric Masterbuilt upright. I believe 700 watts, although I see they are 800 w. The difference might be the 12 years or so ago that I purchased mine. That most definitely needed more heat, because I often was trying to smoke at temperatures around 30°. Never even thought about doing it at 10 below! It went through water quite rapidly when I was smoking pork butts or ribs. Never did a brisket up there. I've only done a couple here. But as for evaporation, water boils at 195 degrees Fahrenheit at 9,000 ft, and we were at 8883 according to the average of two altimeters. Since I was then a beginner, I had nothing to compare it to, but I did keep a water Tree in. My major problem up there was getting up to temperature as it only got up into the '80s during July and early august. If this is any help, we now live at 2600 ft and I boil thin spaghetti for about 9 minutes. Up there we boiled it for 13 minutes.

 

[MikeK]

I think the video shows all kinds of things you have to consider.

If you look at the chart from the video the finish temps were different and he says in the video he couldn’t get the higher elevation brisket any higher than that because of the lower boiling point.

The foil boat was almost dry at the higher elevation which shows the higher elevation is more dependent on adding moisture to your cook.

There was a significant difference in the time to the stall and a somewhat lesser difference to the finished product.

I think the similar percentage of loss was do to the amount of liquid added to both cooks so the briskets had access to enough water to not dry out. My guess is if he had used less water or just a water pan you’d have seen a difference in the moisture of the two cooks.View attachment 21271

But in the end, they both lost the same amount. Whether it be water or fat, that is moisture so in the end its was the same.