Bullseye 380X: Slow Butts and Briskets

[quarks]

I've had a 380X since November and am really enjoying it. I've never had a bad result on it, but I have found that low and slow cooks of things like Boston butts and briskets are far slower than I have been led to expect by recipes and guides. I'll use the cook I did yesterday as an example.

This was a moderate sized Boston butt. I don't remember the exact pre-cook weight but it wasn't more than 9 pounds. I started it at 10 PM Friday, with the grill set to 225. By 7 the next morning the internal temp of the butt was reading as 147. By 4:30 that afternoon it has only made it to 162, at which point I turned the grill up to 275. I pulled it off between 7 and 8 at around 195 and let it rest. It came apart easily enough and was tasty, but less melt in your tender than I think is ideal. I suspect it needed less time at the 150-160 range to stay moist and more time 160 - 180 to render the collagen.

I know about the stall, but a 21 hour cook for a butt this size still seems excessive. I did not wrap this time, but I have in the past and have not found it to speed things up that much. I have had similar results every time I have tried to cook a brisket or a butt. The cook goes fine, just very slow.

Any suggestions? Is there something about the form factor of the Bullseye that limits its distribution of heat? Do I just need to start at higher temp, or turn it up sooner?

Thanks.

 

[PRC]

I've had a 380X since November and am really enjoying it. I've never had a bad result on it, but I have found that low and slow cooks of things like Boston butts and briskets are far slower than I have been led to expect by recipes and guides. I'll use the cook I did yesterday as an example.

This was a moderate sized Boston butt. I don't remember the exact pre-cook weight but it wasn't more than 9 pounds. I started it at 10 PM Friday, with the grill set to 225. By 7 the next morning the internal temp of the butt was reading as 147. By 4:30 that afternoon it has only made it to 162, at which point I turned the grill up to 275. I pulled it off between 7 and 8 at around 195 and let it rest. It came apart easily enough and was tasty, but less melt in your tender than I think is ideal. I suspect it needed less time at the 150-160 range to stay moist and more time 160 - 180 to render the collagen.

I know about the stall, but a 21 hour cook for a butt this size still seems excessive. I did not wrap this time, but I have in the past and have not found it to speed things up that much. I have had similar results every time I have tried to cook a brisket or a butt. The cook goes fine, just very slow.

Any suggestions? Is there something about the form factor of the Bullseye that limits its distribution of heat? Do I just need to start at higher temp, or turn it up sooner?

Thanks.

I would check the grill temperature with a reliable third-party temperature probe. There are a number of different manufactures, I use a ThermoWorks probe. Sounds like the grill was running a lot lower than 225.

 

[quarks]

I would check the grill temperature with a reliable third-party temperature probe. There are a number of different manufactures, I use a ThermoWorks probe. Sounds like the grill was running a lot lower than 225.

I just ran it for about an hour at 225. Two different different infrared thermometers measured the temp on the grate to be around 210-215. So maybe a little low, but not that much.

 

[Jim6820]

I just ran it for about an hour at 225. Two different different infrared thermometers measured the temp on the grate to be around 210-215. So maybe a little low, but not that much.

Cooking chamber AIR temperature is what you need to know, not grate temperature. Heat transfer to large cuts like briskets and butts is via the surrounding air unlike when you sear a steak. Do you have a reliable thermometer with an air probe? If not, I would suggest that it would be a good investment to get one.

And, when you measure the cooking chamber air temperature, it is best to do so with a large piece of protein in it. Air circulation and the heat-sink effect are different in a bare grill.

 

[quarks]

I used the IR thermometer because that's what I have. I assumed the grate temp would be a reasonable proxy for the air temp. I will consider investing in an air proble.

A detail I left out that seems relevant now that we are talking about the way heat is transferred. I usually keep an aluminum pan under the meat to catch drippings. How likely is it that that is what is interfering with heat distribution?

 

[Jim6820]

I don’t own, nor have I ever used, a 380X but the general consensus seems to be that they are designed primarily for hot-and-fast cooks. The shape of the cooking chamber, being round, may have some effect on air circulation during long, slow cooks and that could affect temperature.

As for the aluminum pan under the protein, I think it would depend on the size of that pan. Is it nearly the same size as the grill surface, or significantly smaller? If the pan is large and blocking quite a bit of the air flow, I suppose it might have some effect. That said, many of us use some sort of a catch pan under the protein in our smokers without any significant effect.

 

[Roaniecowpony]

I cooked a couple butts a few days ago, start to finish at 225F set point in my RT700, no wrap. Started 5:20 pm and finished at 9:00 am the next day. So, almost 19 hours. Good bark. A little drier than I prefer. I like a higher temperature cook better. I think 275F is where I had better luck.

 

[RHEINLEIN]

I cooked a couple butts a few days ago, start to finish at 225F set point in my RT700, no wrap. Started 5:20 pm and finished at 9:00 am the next day. So, almost 19 hours. Good bark. A little drier than I prefer. I like a higher temperature cook better. I think 275F is where I had better luck.

Agreed. 225 does seem to cause drier protein on some cuts of beef.
Question for those with a 3rd party grill probe; do the RT grills tend to run /cycle on the cooler side when set at 225 ?

 

[Roaniecowpony]

My recollection from doing a survey of my 700 years ago, was that it did run cooler as you measured further from the probe. I think it's from the probe being on the opposite side from the exhaust stack. As the heat is exhausted towards the right side, it flows across the meat and is cooled. So, the temperature on the right side is lower. That said, there is some extra heat in the middle under the fire pot. I'm sure they put the probe where it is, after much testing, but realizing it is a compromise. I would expect that more meat in the pit would make for more deviation of temperature across the pit.

 

[quarks]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. It sounds like I just need to be willing to turn the heat up to 250 or 275 earlier in the cook. I do like all the smoke I get at 225 so I think I'll continue to start there for the overnight part of the cook.

 

[Graying Mantis]

For what it's worth, here's my log from a pork shoulder on my Bullseye. 8.17# Pork Shoulder. Yellow mustard binder. Traeger Pork and Poultry Rub. On Bullseye @ 7:55 AM. SP 250. RT 246. ThermoPro by meat reads 195. Meat RT 43, TP 42. Apple Juice in drip pan @ 9AM 10:10 AM. Spritz with apple cider vinegar. SP 250 RT 250. TP210. Meat RT 99 TP 95. 12:00 PM. Spritz with apple cider vinegar. SP 250 RT 249. TP222. Meat RT 145 TP 138. 2:00 PM. Meat RT 162, TP 165. Placed in baking pan. I stick butter on top. 2/3 cup Splenda brown sugar. 1C Eliot Ness. SP to 275. Back on @ 2:10 PM. 3:00 PM SP 275. RT 278. TP 276. Meat RT 164 TP 167. 4:00 PM SP 74 RT 274 TP 266 Meat RT 193 TP 195 4:40 PM SP 275. RT 280 TP 280. Meat RT 204 TP 206. pulled from grill. Uncovered 10 minutes, then covered to rest for 1 hour. A few notes to help decipher my shorthand: I have a Thermopro thermometer with a meat probe and air probe, so my temp readings are SP-set point, RT - Recteq, TP - Thermopro. The Thermopro air probe was near the meat to look at the temp in different locations. My drip tray is a 13" diameter stainless steel pan. Eliot Ness is an amber lager from Great Lakes. Bad use of a good beer but it's all i had available. I think I covered the baking pan with foil at the 2 PM step. So roughly a 9 hour cook. Good bark, very moist. I have done chuck roasts starting on LO for 1 - 2 hours, then moving to 225 for a couple hours then to 250. Generally an 8 - 9 hour cook.

 

[C. Keeper]

What does the apple juice in drip pan do

 

[kstone113]

I don't know about others but from my experience with my Bull(I have the normal SS Bullseye but never done a pork butt on it), I bank around 24 hours for pork butts. Usually it is faster than that however from doing a lot of pork butts(even helping out a friend who has a catering business), around 20 hour or so is usually how long it takes.

I am a little surprised it took so long on your bullseye so I would double check the temp with a 3rd party thermometer b/c the bullseye is more direct heat than the Bull.

And C. Keeper - I usually use a drip pan with apple juice in it to collect the fat from the pork shoulder so I can add that back in after pulling apart.

 

[C. Keeper]

I don't know about others but from my experience with my Bull(I have the normal SS Bullseye but never done a pork butt on it), I bank around 24 hours for pork butts. Usually it is faster than that however from doing a lot of pork butts(even helping out a friend who has a catering business), around 20 hour or so is usually how long it takes.

I am a little surprised it took so long on your bullseye so I would double check the temp with a 3rd party thermometer b/c the bullseye is more direct heat than the Bull.

And C. Keeper - I usually use a drip pan with apple juice in it to collect the fat from the pork shoulder so I can add that back in after pulling apart.

Good idea, thanks!

 

[Graying Mantis]

I got used to putting some type of liquid in my drip pan after using a Weber Smokey Mountain for a while. It supposedly helps keep the meat moist and it prevents the drippings from drying up into a black lump during the cook.

 

[quarks]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have one new and one "should have mentioned earlier" data point. I finally got a third party temp probe (ThermPro Tempspike) and tested it out cooking a steak yesterday. At first the ambient temp for Tempspike was pretty close to the built in ambient sensor, but eventually it stabilized at about 25 degrees cooler. I thought maybe that had something to do with the built in probe being close to the grill grate, and that made me realize a variable I did not mention in my original post: I have replaced the stock stainless steel grate with a heavy cast iron one. I think cast iron radiates heat better than stainless, so maybe the iron being right next to the probe is throwing off the reading. Does that seem at all plausible?

 

[Gonefishin]

Maybe, CI certainly hold the heat better so it won’t vary much when opening the grill once heated up. Something I read once that I use when I don’t have a grate clip is to ball up tinfoil and stick the probe thru it so your probe sits the same height as the meat would be.

Grate clips work well too.