140 degrees in 4 hrs rule?

[cf110814]

So can anyone shed some light on the safe amount of time a brisket can be under 140 degrees internal? I ask because I did a brisket over the weekend. Started at 6pm and wanted to go xtreme smoke (180 degrees) until the stall and then turn it up to 225. I woke up and after 12 hrs at 180 the brisket was at 120 or so. I had injected with beef broth, so I'm sure that was partly the reason it was taking so long. I did some internet searching and I came across articles saying that if meat is below 140 for longer than 4 hours then it could spoil and get people sick if they eat it. So I was now at 12 hrs and began to worry I was going to get a whole bunch of people sick if I served it.

Long story short, I turned up the heat, wrapped at the stall, finished the cook, and it was the best brisket I've ever done and no one got sick. Thank god I didn't toss it. So is the whole 140 in 4 hours rule way over-cautious? Does it only apply to poultry? Has anyone ever had an issue with meat spoiling by going too low for too long? I've watched and read a ton on brisket cooking and never had seen the 140/4hr rule before.

The only other thing I would say is that the brisket was a flash frozen prime quality. So perhaps that helped prevent it from developing bacteria? Did I cut it too close and get lucky no one got sick or is it safe to stick with this cooking method?

 

[Greg Jones]

There are exceptions to every rule-clearly your experience is one example. Personally, I’m firmly in the 4/40 to 140 and 4/140 to 40 camp for food safety. It’s just not easy, possibly impossible, to cook meat like brisket and pork butt and push through a stall in 4 hours when cooking at 180 degrees.

 

[Blues1]

This is what I go by.

Rules have set parameters that cannot, under any circumstances, be exceeded...Guidelines set useful control points that need an action or review but leaves the operator open to interpret data and decide on action based on variables and changes.

Here is the 40 to 140 in 4 Guideline...

Uncured Meat that is not Intact as in Ground, Injected*, Boned/Rolled &Tied or have multiple Punctures to insert flavorings, should be cooked at a temperature, 225+, that will get the Internal Temperature from 40 to 140 degree in 4 hours. If there is an issue, reaching this goal +/- an hour or so, like your smoker dying, there is an increased risk of bacteria growing to Dangerous levels. There are Exceptions, see below for more detail...

If the Meat, a Pork Butt, Beef Brisket, Etc, is INTACT, other than Therm Probe, it don't matter if the IT takes 4 hours or 24 hours to get above 140 if we want it there at all!!! The interior of muscle is Sterile, so there is no Bacteria to worry about. Additionally, at 225°F, the meat surface will pass 140°F in 30 to 60 minutes or less, depending on the size of the meat. All surface bacteria is Killed and there is very little that can change that.

The reason for the term Guideline over Rule is because if the meat takes 4 hours and 5 minutes to reach 140, or 4.5, 5 or even 6 hours, is all lost? NO! We add variables that need consideration. Bacteria rapidly grows to Unsafe Levels in, " The Danger Zone, 40 degrees to 140 degrees, " Only under PERFECT conditions. Bacteria need the right Temp, Moisture Level, sufficient Food and Time to grow. Remove, reduce or affect any of these and growth slows or stops. Like most of us, bacteria don't just jump out of bed and go to work. If conditions go from one of no growth to a condition that sustains growth the bacteria need time, often hours to Wake up and start multiplying This is called the " Lag Time " before growth. Then they need more time to grow from a few to dangerous levels. Additionally, where one type can still survive at the extreme of 140, many others slow or stop growing at temps as low as 120 degrees and are killed at 130 degrees if held there for sufficient time. Are THESE bacteria an issue if we run over 4 hours? NO again, they were dead an hour or so ago. Now add ingredients that Inhibit Bacterial Growth like Salt, Sugar, Alcohol and Acid, with a Wet or Dry Brine, Marinade, even Injected* and the 4 hours can be exceeded by a couple hours with no concern. (*Injecting Chicken or Beef Broth is more of a concern, than injecting a high salt brine or marinade that contains salt, sugar, acid or alcohol.)

You want a good " RULE "...It is NOT, " When in Doubt, Throw it out. "

 

[cf110814]

This is what I go by.

Rules have set parameters that cannot, under any circumstances, be exceeded...Guidelines set useful control points that need an action or review but leaves the operator open to interpret data and decide on action based on variables and changes.

Here is the 40 to 140 in 4 Guideline...

Uncured Meat that is not Intact as in Ground, Injected*, Boned/Rolled &Tied or have multiple Punctures to insert flavorings, should be cooked at a temperature, 225+, that will get the Internal Temperature from 40 to 140 degree in 4 hours. If there is an issue, reaching this goal +/- an hour or so, like your smoker dying, there is an increased risk of bacteria growing to Dangerous levels. There are Exceptions, see below for more detail...

If the Meat, a Pork Butt, Beef Brisket, Etc, is INTACT, other than Therm Probe, it don't matter if the IT takes 4 hours or 24 hours to get above 140 if we want it there at all!!! The interior of muscle is Sterile, so there is no Bacteria to worry about. Additionally, at 225°F, the meat surface will pass 140°F in 30 to 60 minutes or less, depending on the size of the meat. All surface bacteria is Killed and there is very little that can change that.

The reason for the term Guideline over Rule is because if the meat takes 4 hours and 5 minutes to reach 140, or 4.5, 5 or even 6 hours, is all lost? NO! We add variables that need consideration. Bacteria rapidly grows to Unsafe Levels in, " The Danger Zone, 40 degrees to 140 degrees, " Only under PERFECT conditions. Bacteria need the right Temp, Moisture Level, sufficient Food and Time to grow. Remove, reduce or affect any of these and growth slows or stops. Like most of us, bacteria don't just jump out of bed and go to work. If conditions go from one of no growth to a condition that sustains growth the bacteria need time, often hours to Wake up and start multiplying This is called the " Lag Time " before growth. Then they need more time to grow from a few to dangerous levels. Additionally, where one type can still survive at the extreme of 140, many others slow or stop growing at temps as low as 120 degrees and are killed at 130 degrees if held there for sufficient time. Are THESE bacteria an issue if we run over 4 hours? NO again, they were dead an hour or so ago. Now add ingredients that Inhibit Bacterial Growth like Salt, Sugar, Alcohol and Acid, with a Wet or Dry Brine, Marinade, even Injected* and the 4 hours can be exceeded by a couple hours with no concern. (*Injecting Chicken or Beef Broth is more of a concern, than injecting a high salt brine or marinade that contains salt, sugar, acid or alcohol.)

You want a good " RULE "...It is NOT, " When in Doubt, Throw it out. "

This is very helpful. I appreciate it. Like I said, glad I didn't toss it. Sounds like I probably did flirt with danger by injecting with beef broth, but all is good. I probably will cook at 225 if I inject from now on and if I don't inject I won't worry about it and roll at 180 to start and crank it up higher later on.