Bull Confusing Cooking Experience - opinions wanted

[PhillySmoke]

By way of background, I have a decent amount of experience smoking on charcoal and gas burners (more on charcoal) and have cooked a LOT of shoulders and ribs with pretty much universally positive results. The bull is my first pellet smoker and I am getting some results which don't make sense to me and wanted to solicit the wisdom of this group to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

I think the biggest issue I am seeing is REALLY long cook times with the meat not being great (or in some cases not even good) at the end. For example, on other smokers I have used, I could typically do a rack of babys which fall off the bone in 6 and a shoulder in the 10# range in 12 and have them both be incredible. I typically don't need to foil the butts and pull them at around 205.

On the bull I did a 9.5# shoulder for something like 15 hours at 225 and the internal temp was still in the 180's. This is not the first time this has happened - in fact, I have not been able to get ANY good butts off the bull. Butts have actually gotten mushy after such a long cook with no real bark to speak of.

Ribs the same, I had a rack of babys in the smoker for 8 hours yesterday and they were pretty terrible and nowhere near the doneness that I like. I smoked them at 240.

I get there is some variability in cut of meat but nothing has changed about the way I trim, rub, rest, pull, anything - only thing different is the smoker.

Doesn't make logical sense to me because temp is temp and I know the smoker is pretty close (within a few degrees) of the set point because I also run a Thermoworks Smoke keeping an eye on both the pit and meat temp and it agrees with the Bull probes. Only thing that occurs to me is that the Bull might be really accurate and I was cooking at a much higher temp than I thought I was with other smokers I have owned. Going to try some at a higher temp to explore that theory.

Family also misses the deep smoke flavor but I get that is a "thing" with a pellet smoker and am going to try a smoke tube to get around that.

Another thing that is really weird to me is that I don't get any drippings to speak of. Ribs yesterday had nothing at all on the drip pan. Shoulder had some but nothing at all in the bucket and it pretty much just piled up below the meat.

Things cooked at higher temps (like pork tenderloin) tend to turn out fantastic.

Pellet wise, I am using CookinPellets Perfect Mix in 40# bags.

This turned out to be a longer post than I wanted but wanted to provide as complete a picture as I could.

Really appreciate the time to go through this and any thoughts you might have.

 

[sdynak]

I have not done shoulder yet and is not really my kind of cut but I have done ribs a few times in the little time I have had it.

I see you just say the ribs came out terrible and not the doneness you expected.

What does that mean exactly? Knowing more might help others to better understand and suggest.

So far the ones I have done have been at low for an hour then 255 for about 5. No wrap or other method other than spritz with apple juice every once in a while and sauce about last 1/2hr and have come out ok. Still open to other methods of course.

Plenty of gunk in my bucket after.

 

[lowcountrygamecock]

I’m two cooks in and noticed the same slow cook times. Tons of experience on a mes 40” electric and a kamado Joe. I cooked meatballs and pork tenderloins and both took way longer than they would have on my other cookers. Not a ton of Smokey flavor on either but that was expected. Otherwise good meals, just cooked slow. I actually came here this morning to ask the same question.

 

[Bytor]

The only thing I have to offer is that these smokers really hold their temps well, at least my 340 does. I came from stick burning and when I first started on my RT, all of my cooks seemed to take a little longer. From what I read, and after thinking about it, it kind of made sense. With my stick burner, fire management was always on-going with temp spikes a lot. I know that on average, my pit temps were above what I wanted and therefore cooked things quicker.

Then came along the RT, which will flatline 225 for hours on end and there goes the slower cook. Once I realized this, I adjusted my cook times and things worked out much better. However, with that said, I never had a Butt or ribs not turn out good. I do 10lb butts a lot at 225 for 13-14 hrs to probe tender and ribs with 3-2-1 with great results. If more smoke is what you want, go LO/high smoke for the first hour or so, then bump up to 225 or 250.

As for pellets, I use CP's all of the time and they are great. What temp are you at with no drippings? I have noticed this tends to vary with different meats. Sometimes, my bucket is 3/4 full and others there's barley anything in it. Also, if you foil the drip pan, that may make your drippings burn off, rather than go into the bucket.

 

[lowcountrygamecock]

I bought some traeger foil shields for the drip pan. They fit pretty good. Figured that might be easier than foiling.

 

[Bif Hunkly]

I don't really have the patience for a 15 hour pork butt or a day long brisket. I cook at higher temps (270-275) and have had amazing results. I did a 10lb pork butt yesterday in around 10 hours and my 18 lb briskets cook in the same amount of time. Pork ribs take around 5 hours. I baby everything quite a bit with a lot of spritzing. I get great bark and flavor.

 

[PhillySmoke]

Wow - thanks for the time to reply guys, I really appreciate it.

@sdynak Great question. When I say terrible and not the doneness I like I mean that there is a lot more fat in them than I am used to despite my normal trimming regimen and they are tough and stringy. I am used to them falling off the bone and most of the fat being gone. I usually have to be very careful cutting them lest they simply fall apart. BTW - sweet looking Jeep in your profile.

@Bif Hunkly and @Bytor I think you guys might be onto something here and I was kinda leaning that way also. I think it might be the case that my other smokers were just not as accurate temp wise as this and I was cooking higher than I thought I was. Going to try a butt at 250-275 with a smoke tube to see what happens and what my times look like.

No foil on the drip pan and I try and keep it pretty clean scraping to bare metal about every other cook. When I say no drippings in the bucket, I mean NONE in there which really seems weird to me.

 

[Beerlord]

I can vouch for the smoke tube. I came from a Traeger which did have a bit better smoke flavor but I had to really baby that thing with spiking temps all the time. I get the smoke tube in as soon as I turn the Bull on and let it sit for 10-15 minutes then add the meat. I've found that I only need about an hour with the tube in though I usually leave it in until it's burned all the pellets.
I did a few large chicken breasts and medium thighs (all bone in) this past weekend at 225 for an hour then up to 275 for 90 minutes and they were some of the best we've ever had. Great smoke flavor and tender and juicy as all get up. Got lots of compliments. Used a dry rub too, no spritzing or sauce.

The fact that I can walk away and check things on my phone makes this pretty much stress free for me. Butts have taken a bit longer but ribs have been fine. The $10 smoke tube really helps but I do understand why some may ask "why do I need a tube if I'm spending $$$$ on a smoker"? You don't but it all depends on your taste.

 

[French792]

By way of background, I have a decent amount of experience smoking on charcoal and gas burners (more on charcoal) and have cooked a LOT of shoulders and ribs with pretty much universally positive results. The bull is my first pellet smoker and I am getting some results which don't make sense to me and wanted to solicit the wisdom of this group to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

I think the biggest issue I am seeing is REALLY long cook times with the meat not being great (or in some cases not even good) at the end. For example, on other smokers I have used, I could typically do a rack of babys which fall off the bone in 6 and a shoulder in the 10# range in 12 and have them both be incredible. I typically don't need to foil the butts and pull them at around 205.

On the bull I did a 9.5# shoulder for something like 15 hours at 225 and the internal temp was still in the 180's. This is not the first time this has happened - in fact, I have not been able to get ANY good butts off the bull. Butts have actually gotten mushy after such a long cook with no real bark to speak of.

Ribs the same, I had a rack of babys in the smoker for 8 hours yesterday and they were pretty terrible and nowhere near the doneness that I like. I smoked them at 240.

I get there is some variability in cut of meat but nothing has changed about the way I trim, rub, rest, pull, anything - only thing different is the smoker.

Doesn't make logical sense to me because temp is temp and I know the smoker is pretty close (within a few degrees) of the set point because I also run a Thermoworks Smoke keeping an eye on both the pit and meat temp and it agrees with the Bull probes. Only thing that occurs to me is that the Bull might be really accurate and I was cooking at a much higher temp than I thought I was with other smokers I have owned. Going to try some at a higher temp to explore that theory.

Family also misses the deep smoke flavor but I get that is a "thing" with a pellet smoker and am going to try a smoke tube to get around that.

Another thing that is really weird to me is that I don't get any drippings to speak of. Ribs yesterday had nothing at all on the drip pan. Shoulder had some but nothing at all in the bucket and it pretty much just piled up below the meat.

Things cooked at higher temps (like pork tenderloin) tend to turn out fantastic.

Pellet wise, I am using CookinPellets Perfect Mix in 40# bags.

This turned out to be a longer post than I wanted but wanted to provide as complete a picture as I could.

Really appreciate the time to go through this and any thoughts you might have.

I think it may be your cooking temp. While I wait for my first RecTec 700 to be delivered, we did get a new oven (very accurate temp) and I cooked a pork butt in there at 225, which even with cooking all night, never hit higher than 180, like you report. Been on a WSM for 11 years and I know I am really smoking more towards the 275 mark there at it's lowest, so when I raise the temp to my new oven - problem solved.

While not 100% related, I hope this helps a bit.

 

[Bif Hunkly]

You might get a Thermoworks Smoke or Signals so you can monitor your temps. My RecTec probe temps seem to be all over the place but I just adjust to the ambient temp on my Signals and things have gone well. Aaron Franklin has a Masterclass where he talks about what temps he does his different types of meat (he smokes at higher temps than most) - they have a text version that is free. I refer back to that A LOT.

 

[PhillySmoke]

@Bif Hunkly I run a Thermoworks Smoke and with the occasional drift a few degrees here and there it is very close to the RecTeq probes. I will have to take a look at Aaron's information, thanks for the tip.

 

[Bif Hunkly]

@Bif Hunkly I run a Thermoworks Smoke and with the occasional drift a few degrees here and there it is very close to the RecTeq probes. I will have to take a look at Aaron's information, thanks for the tip.

I may have to talk to RecTeq - my grill can run 20 degrees over/under what my Signals is telling me. It's frustrating because I never seem to be able to "dial it in." I'm going to try to calibrate one more time before I get in touch with them.

 

[PhillySmoke]

Could also be probe placement. I also should say that the pit is pretty much stabilized when they match. When it is coming up to temp there is bigger drift. There is also an offset setting you can set if the drift is relatively consistent.

 

[kmoore14]

The only thing I have to offer is that these smokers really hold their temps well, at least my 340 does. I came from stick burning and when I first started on my RT, all of my cooks seemed to take a little longer. From what I read, and after thinking about it, it kind of made sense. With my stick burner, fire management was always on-going with temp spikes a lot. I know that on average, my pit temps were above what I wanted and therefore cooked things quicker.

Then came along the RT, which will flatline 225 for hours on end and there goes the slower cook. Once I realized this, I adjusted my cook times and things worked out much better. However, with that said, I never had a Butt or ribs not turn out good. I do 10lb butts a lot at 225 for 13-14 hrs to probe tender and ribs with 3-2-1 with great results. If more smoke is what you want, go LO/high smoke for the first hour or so, then bump up to 225 or 250.

As for pellets, I use CP's all of the time and they are great. What temp are you at with no drippings? I have noticed this tends to vary with different meats. Sometimes, my bucket is 3/4 full and others there's barley anything in it. Also, if you foil the drip pan, that may make your drippings burn off, rather than go into the bucket.

Also have the 340 and this has been my experience almost to a T. I did a brisket this past weekend, 12lbs before trimming, and it took just short of 15 hours. Ran it LO for the first 6, and then up to 225, and finished at 235. All have been fantastic.

 

[Oldboy]

Quick question on “no grease”: Is the end of your drip pan properly place on its ledge with the drain or is the grease going into the inside bottom of your smoker?

 

[PhillySmoke]

@Oldboy Checked that and verified correctly placed. I vac'd out the pellet dust this weekend and no grease in the bottom.

 

[tempecarlton]

By way of background, I have a decent amount of experience smoking on charcoal and gas burners (more on charcoal) and have cooked a LOT of shoulders and ribs with pretty much universally positive results. The bull is my first pellet smoker and I am getting some results which don't make sense to me and wanted to solicit the wisdom of this group to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

I think the biggest issue I am seeing is REALLY long cook times with the meat not being great (or in some cases not even good) at the end. For example, on other smokers I have used, I could typically do a rack of babys which fall off the bone in 6 and a shoulder in the 10# range in 12 and have them both be incredible. I typically don't need to foil the butts and pull them at around 205.

On the bull I did a 9.5# shoulder for something like 15 hours at 225 and the internal temp was still in the 180's. This is not the first time this has happened - in fact, I have not been able to get ANY good butts off the bull. Butts have actually gotten mushy after such a long cook with no real bark to speak of.

Ribs the same, I had a rack of babys in the smoker for 8 hours yesterday and they were pretty terrible and nowhere near the doneness that I like. I smoked them at 240.

I get there is some variability in cut of meat but nothing has changed about the way I trim, rub, rest, pull, anything - only thing different is the smoker.

Doesn't make logical sense to me because temp is temp and I know the smoker is pretty close (within a few degrees) of the set point because I also run a Thermoworks Smoke keeping an eye on both the pit and meat temp and it agrees with the Bull probes. Only thing that occurs to me is that the Bull might be really accurate and I was cooking at a much higher temp than I thought I was with other smokers I have owned. Going to try some at a higher temp to explore that theory.

Family also misses the deep smoke flavor but I get that is a "thing" with a pellet smoker and am going to try a smoke tube to get around that.

Another thing that is really weird to me is that I don't get any drippings to speak of. Ribs yesterday had nothing at all on the drip pan. Shoulder had some but nothing at all in the bucket and it pretty much just piled up below the meat.

Things cooked at higher temps (like pork tenderloin) tend to turn out fantastic.

Pellet wise, I am using CookinPellets Perfect Mix in 40# bags.

This turned out to be a longer post than I wanted but wanted to provide as complete a picture as I could.

Really appreciate the time to go through this and any thoughts you might have.

YMMV but I have had great results on my bull. Here’s some examples. I tend to smoke everything at a higher temp 250° to 275° overall. But I start at a low temp to get max smoke. My brisket take about 10-12 hours. Butts about 8-10 hours. I use lumber jack and bear mountain pellets.

 

[PhillySmoke]

@tempecarlton Now THAT's what I talkin about!! That looks delicious. The more I think about it and the more replies I get, the more convinced I get that it is my temp.

 

[tempecarlton]

@tempecarlton Now THAT's what I talkin about!! That looks delicious. The more I think about it and the more replies I get, the more convinced I get that it is my temp.

I got my Bull in July and it’s been fantastic. I think all pits have a learning curve to it. I’m happy I could help out.

 

[WooPigFoodie]

I agree. Check temps first. I don’t do many shoulders but I do a ton of brisket and the Bull is great for those long cooks. Had good experience here on ribs too. Here are some pics. Not sure if the vids will show.